Kepke Genealogy Forum
Link to Kopke/Gerdes Family History Chart
Last Update: March 21, 2002---See also: Arthur Mead/Elma Semken Wedding Book
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Section I
This section contains edited excerpts of letters and eMail messages exchanged during the month of August 2001.
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From Mead Cain to Tom Rawson, August 15, 2001:
Your genealogy page covers much of my family. My mother Marjorie (Margery) Mead is in your genealogy. I learned a great deal by following the different paths. My great-grandmother is Beta Henrietta Diederik (I actually remember her--she was known as "Nanny" to us), daughter of Maria Gerdes, and step daughter of Hermann Kopke. I noted that Beta's birth date was 2-4-1856, and Maria Gerdes and Hermann Kopke's marriage date was 8-1-1857. I wonder what became of Beta's father Mr. Diederik?
I noted from the birth dates of Hermann Kopke and Maria Gerdes' children that the family immigrated to the US sometime between 1863 and 1866. Do you know anything about what prompted the move? More generally, do you know if there is any family history written down that is available?
Do you know why the spelling of "Kopke" became so varied (Koepke, Kepke)? Was this the choice of the children or a product of a US immigration official?
I noted that none of John Kepke jr's 4 siblings survived infancy. Do you know anything that could explain this? Hereditary disease, etc.?
One of the few documents that I have from my mother's side of the family is a "Bridal Souvenir" from her mother's (Elma Semken) marriage to Arthur Mead (1912 in Brooklyn). In the rear is space for the guests to sign. For your information, among those in attendance were:
Beta Henrietta Diederik (signed Mrs. John G. Semken-- Mr. Semken did not sign)
Dorothy Semken Harris & her husband Edward Harris, and daughter Dorothy
Jennie Koepke Charles & her husband Perry (?)
John and Emilie Kepke & son John jr.
Dorothea Kopke Ross & husband A.W. Ross, & daughter Hermia & son A.W jr.
Editor's Note: See Arthur Mead/Elma Semken Wedding Book for images from the "Bridal Souvenir"********
From Tom Rawson to Mead Cain, August 15, 2001:
I have the following notes for Beta Henrietta Diederike: "She used the last name of "Koepke" in U.S.A. prior to marriage. Geestendorf is likely the original name of Bremerhaven."
My notes for Hermann Kopke and Maria Gerdes read, "HHG Kopke and Maria emigrated from Germany 'quickly' via England to U.S.A. approx. 1862-1863." Perhaps my mother knows what that means.
I think "Köpke" was the spelling used in Germany and "Koepke" the spelling used in North America. My guess is that immigration officials were responsible. I think most of the family eventually chose to change their name to "Kepke" because it required less instruction to others on the proper spelling. I'm sure my mother can clarify this.
About my grandfather's (John Kepke) siblings: Paul died at age 9 of diabetes. That was before the days of daily insulin shots. The other three children died much younger. I don't know any details.
Thank you for the info from the "Bridal Souvenir". I am glad to know what Mr. Semken's first name was. My database says that Jennie's son was named Perry. I don't have a first name for her husband. Can you tell if that is a husband and wife signature, or is it possible she signed for herself and her son?
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From Joan (Rafter) Keyes to Tom Rawson, August 17, 2001:
I remember Margery married a Navy man named Cain. I didn't go to her wedding, but I went to her sister Doris' wedding. Doris and Margery were my "older" cousins. I remember visiting them when I was little girl. Their father Arthur once took us for a ride and bought me a balloon, but he wouldn't buy them one...I felt so bad...I remember him well...very handsome. Elma (Mead's grandmother) was very close to our family. We were always visiting them either in Swarthmore or Greenwich, so I remember Aunt Ett (Beta Henrietta) as well. She lived with them.
Dorothy, Elma's sister spent every Christmas with us and always came to my apartment or house after my grandmother (Dora) stopped having Christmas...so my older children remember also. In fact, Elma, too, came to my house in Sands Point for Christmas just a few weeks before she died.
I never heard anyone mention "husbands"...they simply didn't exist! The "BridalSouvenir" from Elma's wedding is very interesting... but I think someone else wrote in the names. My grandmother always used Kepke and her son was Alan, not AWJr. Perry was Jenny's son, not husband. I never heard Dorothy or Elma mention their father, and I never knew Aunt Ett was a half-sister. I think my grandfather Alexander (Alec) helped all these husbandless sisters and their brother Uncle Herman, too.
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From Kit Rawson to Tom Rawson, August 18, 2001:
The story about Herman H G Köpke's immigration to the US is that he was a baker (for the German navy perhaps) and had to leave quickly because of some bad bread he made. What made the bread "bad" and why it was such a big deal, I have no idea. Maybe Mother can expand on this story a little bit more.
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From Edie (Kepke) MacDonald to Tom Rawson, August 20, 2001:
I believe my father always assumed that Herman was Etty's father. As far as I know there was no indication that Maria was a widow when she married. My father believed there was no big mystery here. It was not unusual for people to have a child and later get married--in that era and in that society.
I also believe that Diederike is a female first name rather than a last name. If Maria Gerdes had been married to a Mr. Diederik, she would have been Mrs. Diederik, not Miss Gerdes. Of course, Etty's father might have been a Mr. X. But I still don't think so. My father didn't think so.
Köpke was the spelling in Germany, I believe. That was changed to Koepke in the US to help with the pronunciation since ö is not really an English sound. However the family (maybe Dr John and Herman?) got tired of being referred to as K(long o)pke, and changed it to Kepke. If you look in a big city phone book you can find a lot of variations of names that probably were originally Köpke.
The "quickly" migration probably means that he did not want to be drafted into the army. I believe that was a reason for a lot of emigrations.
The children who died: A couple of them died at birth or very shortly after. I heard one of my parents say that one (I believe Ruth) "never raised her head".
Perry was Aunt Jennies's son.
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From Connie (Kepke) Rawson to Tom Rawson, August 24, 2001:
As to the spelling of the ancestral name:
The original German spelling was Köpke. (It may have meant something like "little head". I understand that names ending in "ke" are not unusual in the area of Germany around Bremen.)
The rendering of ö into oe is the common usage in English orthography. Similarly: ü into ue and ä into ae.
Nothing to do with immigration officials. I have seen Kopke, but Kepke approximates the German pronunciation more closely.
My father told me that his father dropped the o because he was tired of being called Dr. Koh-ep-kee".
Reason for emigration:
I was told that Hermann had a bakery that supplied bread to transatlantic shipping. Something, never specified, went wrong and he had to flee the country. He went to England where his family eventually followed him. From England they went to the US and ended up in Brooklyn. I don't have any information about what he did in Brooklyn for a living. Apparently he at least owned a horse and wagon; they were found at the waterfront one day and Hermann was never heard from again. The question always has been--did he jump into the river to end it all, or did he take off for points West? (There are a lot of Kepkes in Minnesota!)
I have not been able to find out anything about the deaths of my father's three siblings who died in infancy.
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Section II
Summary, October 7, 2001:
Thanks to Mead Cain's interest in the Kepke genealogy we have apparently discovered an inaccuracy in my database. I now believe that if Dr. John had any half siblings, they were Kepkes in Minnesota, and not Gerdes in New York. Consequently, the database has been changed to show Etty as the oldest child of Hermann Hinrich Gerhard Köpke and Maria Gerdes, along with a note explaining that there is some question about this.
Any Kepkes in Minnesota want to admit to being our half cousins? We're really a lot of fun and would love to have you in the family. Please let us know if Hermann made it out there.
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Section III
From Joan Keyes to Tom Rawson October 29, 2001
Great to hear from you, Tom...if I don't add my 2 cents now I may not get around to it...
I agree with Edie (I must write to her!!) about Ettie's father. I was shocked to learn from your geneology that she might have been a half sister...I don't think so. Nobody ever mentioned that possibility. I'm sure Diedereke was part of her given name...my grandmother's full name was Dorothea Herminia Juliana Kepke...so it's logical that Ettie had 3 first names, too.
Also, it was my understanding that the finding of the horse and carriage abandoned by the water's edge signified that the father of the five siblings had taken his life in desperation. I don't wish to believe that he deserted to Minnesota and produced more offspring...sorry... The mother was a strong woman who supported her children as a seamstress and occasionally "terrorized" them when she couldn't find her glasses. They were too afraid to tell her that her glasses were on top of her head (I think I told you that one.) My grandmother, Dora, always chuckled when she told me that story.
Also, "Uncle" John's (your great grandfather) three babies died at birth (not unusual in those days), and he was devastated by Paul's death at age 9.
Please say hello to Edie and your mom...I keep saying I'll write to them...and I will!! and I'd like to get in touch with Mead, too. I'd like to know about the rest of our cousins Doris and Marjorie...and another one...Perry's daughter, Pat, who lives in California.
Hope all is well with you and your "new" family...and your class this year. I have a couple of things to send you...soon!?
Can still see smoke from the WTC and the NY skyline across the water from a beach at the end of the road next to mine...
That's all for now...joan
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From Kit Rawson to Tom Rawson October 31, 2001
Tom -- It's great that you put the responses to Mead's questions on your web site. I think one really interesting thing about the Kepke genealogy is that Grandfather and Mother collected most of the infomation about ancestors prior to Herman HG Koepke by going through old (church, I think) records in Geestemunde. I think they did this in 1939, the summer before WW II began, and they had to read documents in old German script to do it. I doubt very much if any of HHG Koepke's American descendents would know anything about his ancestors if they hadn't done this.
It would be very interesting to get Mother to write about this experience of unearthing these records.
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From Connie Rawson to Tom Rawson October 31, 2001
There's not an awful lot of interest to tell about 1939. Because of the need for Germans to be able to prove their "pure Aryan" ancestry,it became easy to get information from church records. My father took me with him when he consulted the records at the church in Geestemunde where his father had been baptized. I have only a vague memory of being in the church office and of my father looking at records and making notes and talking to the clergyman.
The Rehwald/Dittmann information came through correspondence, and I had nothing to do with that.
The "forum" is interesting. I do think, though, that it's misleading to include speculation about immigration officers affecting the spelling of the name. Those stories all seem to date from Ellis Island days. Our German ancestors arrived before Ellis Island was established. As I have explained, the Koepke spelling followed the customary system when dealing with names containing letters with umlauts.
We are enjoying your on-line genealogy. Thanks for all your work.
Ever your devoted M
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Section IV
From Mead Cain to Tom Rawson February 3, 2002
I attach 4 files--3 scans from the marriage book that I refered to, with two pages of signatures, and a copy of the marriage certificate. (These Brooklyn locations are interesting--one of these days I am going to go over there and visit the addresses that I have.)
I also enclose a scan of an entry in my grandfather Arthur Mead's address book for Elma Semken, his bride to be. I found the three address changes interesting, and wondered what prompted such movement. (I do not expect anyone to give me an answer.) The only other Koepke related address is for Ed Harris: 1157 East 33rd St. Brooklyn.
Editor's Note: See Arthur Mead/Elma Semken Wedding Book to view the images referred to.********************
From Tom Rawson to Joan Keyes February 4, 2002
There are two pages of signatures of guests in attendance at the Arthur/Elma wedding. On one of the pages is a signature that appears to read "A.W. Ross". However, the writing is kind of shaky.
On the other page is a very legible "A.W. Ross, Jr."
I remember you had said that your uncle went by "Alan", not "AW, Jr."
I can't figure out who these two would be if they're not your grandfather and your uncle. It was 1912. That was before your cousin Alan was born, I think.
Would you please look at those signatures and let me know what you think?
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From Joan Keyes to Tom Rawson February 6, 2002
Mystery solved (I think)...
What fun, Tom!!!! And how exciting to see the bridal souvenir...and ...what really shocked me was...they were married at my house!!!!! I was born and brought up at 540 Carlton Avenue and lived there until I went off to college. I knew the house held lots of wonderful mysteries, memories and ghosts...
Now, this is what I think about the signatures. My grandfather's father was also named Alexander so it's possible that he went by A.W.Ross, Jr. before I knew him, and that signature underneath Hermia's is obviously his. (I have an old packet of letters he wrote to her years ago when she was away at school.)
The two crazy signatures at the bottom of page 2 could be a young Newell L. Mead, Jr and an even younger Alan Ross clowning around (that would go with his character).
Well, what do you think?
One favor, please...my grandmother always spelled her Kepke name without the "o" so could you put her on the Kepke list rather than the Koepke list..unless you have a special reason for leaving her where she is...
Thanks, Tom for bringing all this amazing stuff into my life...Edie and i are now e-mailing each other, too. I'd love to get out to the west coast to see you all...one of these days?
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From Tom Rawson to Joan Keyes February 6, 2002
Well yes, this is amazing. 540 Carlton Avenue was your house! Do you know when your parents moved there? More specifically, do you know who was living there March 6, 1912?
I think your explanation of the signatures makes as much sense as anything else. And you have the handwriting evidence! When you suggest the signature on the bottom of the first page of names might be a "younger Alan Ross", I assume you mean your uncle Alan Ross, and not his son Alan. About how old was your uncle Alan in 1912? It's so confusing because there are so many named Alan or Alexander Ross, and also because the generations don't line up very neatly. Young Dorothy Harris was there and she is the same generation as you and my mother, but she may have been closer in age to your parents and my grandparents.
I have changed the spelling of Dorothea's last name to "Kepke" on the web site and in the main database. Do you know what her last name was when she was born? I assume all of Hermann's children were born "Köpke" except Dorothea, who was born in the U.S. The others were all born in Germany, I think.
I look forward to your West Coast visit. I am planning an East Coast visit in the summer and I hope to make it to Long Island to see all my cousins. I'll let you know.
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From Joan Keyes to Tom Rawson February 7, 2002
I don't usually respond this fast but...this is so exciting! 540 Carlton Avenue was always "my house". My grandfather, Alexander W. Ross, built it...it was one of a long row of brownstones. The family always lived there. When my uncle Alan grew up he moved out, but my mother, Hermia, continued to live there. When my mother and father got married and I was born we lived on the top floor...my grandmother and grandfather lived on the two lower floors. So..to answer your question, they all lived there in 1912 at the time of Arthur and Elma's wedding (and I'm sure my grandfather happily "footed the bill") I think I told you previously that he seems to have watched over all of the sisters and one brother,"Uncle Herman".
At the time of Mead's grandparents' wedding my mother was about 19 or 20 and Alan was 4 years younger, I think. We always referred to the two Alans as "Big Alan" and "Little Alan"...and the two Dorothys as "Big Dorothy and "Little Dorothy" ...you're right, the generations don't work out timewise very easily. I think there's about a 10 year gap between each set, considering that Etty was 10 years older than Dora. My grandmother may have been born with the umlaut over the"o" but changed it later to "e"
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From Tom Rawson to Joan Keyes February 7, 2002
My notes on Dorothea read, "Youngest in family and only one born in U.S., thus 'Koepke', not 'Köpke' at birth." I got these notes with the Kepke genealogy I got from Kit in 1993. I don't know the source. My guess from assimilating others' guesses and recollections is that Hermann, Maria and the German-born children changed their name to "Koepke" upon arrival in the U.S., and that eventually everyone changed their name to "Kepke". My mother wrote, "My father told me that his father dropped the o because he was tired of being called Dr. Koh-ep-kee." If true, then at least one of the siblings, Dr. John, didn't make the change until he was an adult.
Do you know how to make an umlaut on the word processor? It's easy. Hold down the option or alt key. Then press u. Nothing will happen, but then type an o and Voila! you have an ö. But it doesn't work when making web pages. In that case you have to type &-o-u-m-l-; just to get ö, so Köpke must be coded as K-&-o-u-m-l-;-p-k-e. If you don't code it correctly Köpke shows up as Ksˆøpke. I never would have learned these practical and useful tips if I hadn't become a Kepke Internet genealogist!
How long did your parents stay in the house at 540 Carlton Avenue ? And where did they live in 1964? That's when I met your dad on the sidewalk in Brooklyn Heights . I was out walking with my grandfather and we ran into "Cousin Joe Rafter" and chatted with him for a few minutes. I didn't really understand who he was until I put the genealogy on my computer almost 30 years later.
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Joan Keyes to Tom Rawson March 11, 2002:
I think the reason for Elma's 3 addresses (in Arthur's Phone Book) is because in those days the widows and children seem to have lived in "rooming houses"...all very acceptable and dignified. I remember hearing about "the house on the hill"...haven't a clue as to where it was.
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Section V
Klaus Friendrichs to Tom Rawson July 2010
Hi Tom,
thank you for transmitting the charts and the pedigree of your ancestors.
There are some gaps, which I saw: You do not have the date and location of death of the parents of Marie Elisabeth Gerdes.
You stated with the children only Germany as date of birth.
There are no data concerning the siblings of Marie Elisabeth.
Maybe your grandfather did not check the burials of Geestendorf in 1939.
I may render you a transscription of the birth of Beta Henriette Diederike, born 1856.
The register says definitely, that the mother was unmarried and a father is not mentioned.
Witnesses at the baptizing ceremony were:
1. Beke Margarerethe von Runnen, nee Schütte, wife of cooper NN.von Runnen, Geestendorf
2. Anna Korten, unmarried, Geestendorf
3. Diedrich Riedemann, baker, in Geestemünde
And here you are: The third name of the child Diederike is the female name to Diedrich, the 3rd witness.
Hope this will clarify the situation, there was no father named NN. Diedrich!
The Prussian-Austra War was in 1866, when the Kingdom of Hannover was taken over by Prussia after the battle in Langensalza,
but the family Köpke emigrated before this date.
Up to now I am not sure, if Hermann Köpke owned a bakery on his own or if he was working for another baker.
Contaminated bread or flour could not be the reason for his emigration. They wold haven taken him to court.
All the speculations of the e-mails on the Internet are void.
Klaus